So today, I figured I'd go for a quick walk/hike in a local trail (Mills Reservation) near me in Montclair NJ. I guess it was a somewhat higher elevation that allowed the snow to remain in the lot and the trails, but anyway..

Since the opportunity presented itself, I figured I would try out Subaru's AWD system and by default the tires on my 2021 Crosstrek in a hundred or so foot slight hill - snow/slush and (slightly) ice covered. The Crosstrek struggled a bit but did better in the SNOW MODE and although the wheels were spinnin' did make it up the hill. These pics do not reflect the incline of the hill. BTW, that's my blue Crosstek in the first picture. So, I figured since I live so close by, I'd give the CX-5 the same whirl under pretty much the same conditions. Both had new, highly rated All Weather tires.

Well, even though it was heavier (maybe because?) than the Crosstrek, I did not make it to the top, wheels were spinning in place, even with trying the manual lower gears. I just well........kept spinning my wheels. Now, granted I was starting from a cold start, not a continuous run with all the momentum and if it were a real matter of getting stuck - instead of a quick, unscientific "test" I probably could have maneuvered differently. But I have to give the (expected) nod to the Subaru and their AWD system. Yeah, there's a reason they call the Outback the state car of Vermont. Having said that, I soothed myself in the CX-5's so very quite and comfortable drive home.

 

Hard to tell whether it was the AWD difference between the vehicles, with different tires.

The Vredestein Quatrac Pro has significantly greater amounts of siping and a much different tread block design as compared to the Michelin CrossClimate 2. Both are 3PMSF 3-peak mountain snow rated for severe winter conditions. I wonder if there's a significant distinction in the tire compound used between the two.

It is interesting how even slight differences in conditions can dramatically alter grip with a given car/tire.

It would be interesting to see if the CX-5's grip on that same road, that day, would have been different with, say, the Vredestein Wintrac Pro.

Finest grip I've ever experienced in a sedan format car: Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 (IIRC) on a VW Passat 4Motion. No matter the type of surface in the winter, that car simply couldn't be stopped. Ice, slush, refrozen crud mix a foot deep, off-camber cornering with wintry mix, or snow of all depths. Once headed up a steep one-lane forest road with between 2-3ft of snow in ~10ºF temps. Amazing grip. On the flats in straight snow conditions, grip was very nearly like normal dry trip with great summer tires. The first year of those Hakkas were indescribably amazing, for grip. Compared to the third year on a set of Dunlop Winter Sport M3 (IIRC, which had begun to lose its "oomph" on the wintry stuff), the third winter season of the Hakkas were head and shoulders above. Siping and tread block design were similar, but the compounds were different. Don't know for certain what explained why the Hakkas had nearly first-year grip after several seasons, but the Dunlop Winter Sports dropped off significantly after about ~15Kmi of winter season use. Same ratty and steep, one-lane forest road, same deep snow, same car, Hakka R2's vs Dunlop WS in their third winter seasons of use: vastly different levels of grip.

 

Very thorough response. It sure is possible that my "results" were/could have been related to a difference in tires/compounds/trad pattern. Maybe the fact that the Michelin was the highest rated and the Vredesteins were about 4th? I dunno. And I still believe the tires are the most critical factor affecting a car's performance/traction. I am betting a car with dedicated snow tires would do better in snow/slush than an AWD car with All Season tires - particularly the substandard OEM tires that the auto manufacturers provide. I want to stress again that this was "a quick, unscientific "test."" Even making the same "run" in the same area minutes later - which I did could yield different results as some areas - not all are now more compacted. I am also aware the these are ALL WEATHER Tires, not dedicated snow tires like the Hakkas or Blizzaks, which I'm sure would have done much better. I think the Mazda AWD system takes in effect things like if your wipers are on - they weren't, temps are low - they weren't, etc, so maybe if it were colder and snowing the results could have been different.

But at the end of the day the AWD systems are different and Subaru system - along with Audi's Quattro AWD system are very well proven.

 

Yeah, the Nokian WR G4's that I currently have are a noticeable step down in flat-out grip on the wintry stuff as compared to the Hakkas, Blizzak or similar "serious" ice+snow tires. Not that level of grip, but still really good. It'd be interesting to see comparative grip on a similarly-shod Subaru, Audi, Jeep, etc., versus the CX-series Mazdas. Haven't yet found such a tire test or review. Perhaps Tire Rack might pick up the full Nokian line and add them to their various tests and reviews.

Yup.

Have driven both in the winter, much more frequently in an '80s vintage Subaru AWD wagon, but also the Audi Q5 Quattro and the S6 Quattro. As you say, serious winter "machines," those. Proper ice+snow tires for winter make the most difference but, still, whatever it is Subaru and Audi do with their AWD system, they certainly do it right.

 

For the discussion -- AllTyreTests


Here's a fairly decent tire review website: AllTyreTests -- reviews of tires, including many dozens of winter-oriented tires and comparisons to other "top" tires in the category.

An example of some of the tires reviewed for winter capabilities:
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Once again, very well stated. I am very happy with the Vredsteins on the CX-5 and the Michelins on the Crosstrek. It's money well, worth the piece of mind. It's just a damn shame that we have to pay extra to get it.

 

My thoughts exactly. One would think that Mazda could make the distinction between their AWD models and the non-AWD, and shod them accordingly. On the non-AWD, assume folks want a more typical non-winter-capable tire, but on the AWD models, most particularly in the CX-series, assume people are doing AWD for a purpose and will most likely want a modestly winter-capable tire.

At least they could make it an options package. Say, three possible tires available if you order it new from Mazda, then you can have it delivered with whichever tire you believe is most appropriate.

Sadly, until the UTQG tread life ratings can be had in a "winter" tire that match what a "summer" tire has, I seriously doubt any of the makers are going to do that.

 

I don't know what the considerations ALL the car companies make when specify the tires for their cars. But I think the nod goes to cheaper cost, longer tread life and (?) noise levels. I am not so concerned with them offering tires with a better (or not) winter rating, but it seems almost across the board, the OEM tires are some of the worst performing ( braking, dry and wet handling, etc.) - mid grade at best tires according to the published reviews. I would have swapped out the tires even if I lived in the sun belt. Sooooooo, after all was said and done with my 2 cars, I had to shell out about $1800.00 to have tires I was confident in.

 

I have had Honda civics, Honda Accords and Chevy Trucks all with winter tires. I live in Alberta, Canada where it doesn't matter what you drive you need winter tires so I only run the best on all my vehicles which is nokian hakkapeliitta R3's. This CX 5 AWD is the best I have every had in all Alberta's worst conditions. This car will hold a line better than anything I have ever own, or even driven. I heard the Forester and CR V are also great, but I have not had the pleasure of driving either. Not sure why you think the way you do, but I can tell you this car is amazing.
You think a Honda civic can do that?

 

I figure that the OP was driving on the Mazda-fitted Toyo A23 tires, or similar. An unexceptional tire, most particularly in icy and snowy conditions, as most average "all" season tires tend to be.

According to users with more than 3M miles driven on the things, people who've posted reviews on TireRack suggest that fewer than one in three people would recommend purchasing the Toyo A23. They rank 9th from the bottom of TireRack's list of tires in the category, and downright dangerous in "Winter" performance: Crossover/SUV Touring All-Season tire ratings @ TireRack. Nobody's idea of a safe "winter" season tire, let alone a good one given the alternatives.

The OP apparently lives (lived) in northern Wisconsin. Ice, snow, to say nothing of the frigid temperatures. If the OP had used a great winter tire suited for nasty winter conditions, I'd bet the experience would be much like yours, mine and that of countless others. (On Toyo A23's? That's a bit like thinking a $9.95 Zebco reel and rod at K-Mart will be sufficient for taking tuna in the Atlantic, IMO.)

Might have been interesting to know what specific tires the OP purchased for the Subaru.