Not according to most any website that published the invoice price. Which is odd considering the destination is the same no matter where in the continental USA. From the top 2 or 3 results on Google when searching 2021 CX-5 Invoice.

https://www.car-buying-strategies.co...-5-prices.html
They list invoice and destination separate

https://www.iseecars.com/car/2021-mazda-cx__5-price
No destination included

Interesting the invoice prices are slightly different but close enough.

It's probably best to discuss prices as % off MSRP with all options, or as I term it the "sticker price" to create a consistent frame of references. Because someone who got $3000 of MSRP got a better deal if MSRP with all the options was $37K versus $38K. The former you got 8.1% off MSRP and the latter you got 7.9% off MSRP. As long as you say what the sticker was and what the final price (excluding tax and licensing and junk (doc) fees) though we can all do the math.

If you just say what you got over or under invoice, (a) we don't know for sure if that includes destination and all the optional add-ons - unless you confirm one way or the other, and (b) once again, if the car was loaded with options that increased the MSRP, the same price above/below invoice is going to be a better deal than a car with a lower sticker price with less options. I don't think there is a site that can calculate invoice price on roof rack, floor mats, bumper guards, facias, etc. If there is please let me know.

 

Hello all,

Just did a deal for a used CX-5 from the previous gen, (2014-17, or whatever it is) from a dealership. Looking over my paperwork, I see some real misrepresentations in the final contract versus what I was told during negotiation and the purpose of those fees, but that's on me for not being educated and diligent - so whatever. It'll bite them in the *** one day when the wrong person gets screwed.

Anyway, I'm wondering about prices paid. Obvs, the real price is what a person will pay for it.

But all the things I see online provide either the "trade in" value or the asking price (from a dealer or private seller). The first is probably weight against you if you're trading in and the second is weight against you because the seller is trying to max their profits (and the dealers are better at it). So is the truth basically in the middle somewhere?

What I'm trying to say is, I'm wondering what people are actually paying for an SUV like mine. Some are going to be great negotiators, some are just going to be suckers....I know I'm not a great negotiator, but I'm feeling like a sucker.

Also, I just learned - after I bought of course - that my state allows dealers to charge THE BUYER for a portion of the taxes the dealership pays. It's in the final contract of course, including a required-by-law disclosure, but by the time a buyer sees that they're emotionally invested and will just pull the trigger to go home. I think people can have different opinions about whether this is "right" or "wrong". I think it's multi-millionaire dealerships putting their operating costs on buyers instead of folding their costs into the asking price of a product, and then listing it as some fake "fee" that most people - including me - won't inquire about (actually I did inquire and was told, essentially fraudulently that these were not negotiable, suggesting they were somehow required by the state).

Worse is the so-called processing and handling or document handling fees, that fee is negotiable AND based on operating costs or absolutely nothing, depending on your opinions about these things. I think's these two fees I mentioned are outrageous and I have resolved to educate every. single. person. who will listen about this.

(I got off track, but was basically wondering how on earth buyers are suppose to determine the world value of a vehicle.

 

@Marlowe Used prices are tough. It's easier to compare new prices with others. Both vary though depending on area of the country. But with used you have more that factors into the value. Mainly the condition, vehicle history, and the mileage. TrueCar, KBB, Edmunds, AutoTrader are all BS in my oppinion as far as reliable for determining "real" used selling prices or trade-in prices. They are all oriented to low ball figures on the trade/private party sale value and high ball figures on dealer listings.

I've found Black Book to be the most accurate as to the REAL value/selling/trade price of the car. A lot of the dealers use the Black Book (or NADA but NADA consumer site gives different numbers than the private NADA dealer site). If I remember right Black Book figures in the Manheim auction prices which is the primary place Dealers get rid of used vehicles they don't want to keep on their lots and the 2nd tier independent dealers buy their used cars from.

Dealers pay a subscription to access Black Book, so you have to hunt around for a website that has a web page to get access to public access to their Black Book subscription. This one does:

https://www.intelliprice.com/intelli...lerid=3045511& (It's a GMC Dealership)

Don't enter your actual name, email and phone or else now you're going to get hounded by the dealer. The next screen will show you the price range. The low end is for not great condition (dings, dents, repaints, upholstery issues, smoke smell, etc) The high range is for like new condition.condition. These are supposed to be trade value. Dealers ALWAYS LOW BALL on the trade price so you have to haggle hard with them to get these prices typically, at least in my experience. They know you just want to get rid of your car and drive out of there smelling that new car smell.In my testing, the high end of the range is close to the lowest price the dealer would sell the used car in good condition/certified. On my 19 CX5 GT, mint with only 20.800 miles the high range is currently $28275. Interesting in just the past 10 days the trade value on my car as gone up a little more! Used market must not be cooling down one bit.

I see dealers advertising my car with similar miles on Autotrader in my area for an average of around $29,500-$29,900, yes, like $500 less than my purchase price 2.5 years ago! But in my experience over the years, the dealer will take a minimum of at least 5% off the asking price on used cars. Sometimes as much as 10%. So the actually selling price on my car used I would expect would NORMALLY be in the $27,000 to $28,250 range. My gut is that due to the market the way it is, it's going to be on the higher end of the range. So a dealer advertising at $29,500 would probably not go much lower than $28. Just my gut. They probably got low to mid range the Black Book value on the trade. I'm not sure what their typical target for profit is, but it's probably at least $1000 or more like $2000 on a used car in the $25000-$30000 range. They have to put some cost into it as far as detailing it, mechanical check to certify it and advertising.

So if you paid 5% or less over the high end of the Black Book value, you got an okay price. More than 5% over the high Black Book value and not so great a deal. If the car is in excellent condition and you paid lower than the high end of Black Book trade-in value range, I would say you got a great deal in my opinion.

 

Thank you Jeez, I genuinely appreciate the run down. I'm just taking a break from hustling today to get a bunch of chores done, so I'm going to bookmark this and read it again later.

At the end of the day, I'm okay about it. This model had everything I wanted: Pretty good gas mileage, relatively low total miles, can tow up to 2000 lbs, moonroof, an allegedly good speaker system, bluetooth radio, TONS of space, rear sets that frickin' fold flat, great safety ratings, ample engine. Factor in that I'm time limited (the 2nd of 2 family vehicles is on the verge of death, so we'd be without wheels if I hadn't set this deal up by now), locality, the low mileage, the hot used car market, the sharks and vipers that work at these dealerships, my naivety and loathing of haggling and I think I made out good.

(A poster at Mazda247 thought it was paid I paid $18k for a "beat up" CX-5. I told him it wasn't beat up, the rest of the body is like the day it left the factory and the previous owner somehow managed to avoid any of the paint chipping, rock nicks, etc problem. Like I didn't see a single one on that very front edge of the hood and I find that RARE for a 6 year old used car. Maybe he had a car bra on it or something. Rest of the body beautiful as far as I was concerned.) Also the cloth seats looked perfect. I didn't go crawl around every square inch, I should have, but no holes or burns or stains and at least in the front seats no tearing or pulling of the seams.

Anyway, thank you again for taking he time to school me. I'm new to the forum, but I think the mods should bookmark your explanation to the resources page!

 

"So if you paid 5% or less over the high end of the Black Book value, you got an okay price. More than 5% over the high Black Book value and not so great a deal. If the car is in excellent condition and you paid lower than the high end of Black Book trade-in value range, I would say you got a great deal in my opinion."

Visited black book, paid a LOT over the top end. Looks like I got screwed. Learning experience I guess.

EDITED: Turns out Black Book values came with my consumerreports subscription. WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE TO KNOW!

Anyway, I came out at about 4% over BB.

 

I get what you are saying but again, it makes no sense to talk numbers without the destination added as you simply can't buy the car without paying this fee. As to invoice prices on add on's, Carsdirect.com suggests what you "should" pay for the extras. For example, they show a price of $320 for the roof rails, $441 for the Machine Grey paint and $100 for the rear bumper guard (which are $400/$495/$125 options at mazdausa.com if you build the car). They do this for all the options so you get an idea of what they suggest is a good price for your area with all the add on's.