You make a compelling arguement regarding the airbag module. I did speak with them on the phone and exchanged e-mails and they test the modules using simulators after they are repaired/reprogrammed to ensure that they will function like new in the event of a crash. If they can't fix it due to damaged electrical components, you pay nothing. I'll have to think about that one some more. In either case, using your advice above,Iwill save some money there (no way that damn thing will take 3 hours to replace like the dealer quoted).

They said the warm up cat is built into the right manifold, so that would get replaced anyway. If I end up having them do the work, maybe I'll ask that they just replace the manifold first and reset the codes, and I'll see if the CEL comes back on. Not knowing where any of the O2 sensors are, I don't know if the labor they quoted for replacing that sensor (1 hour) accounts for the fact they will already have the manifold ripped out. If the sensor doesn't need to be replaced, that saves another $215. You indicated that this is the rear sensor, but the part description for the p/n they gave me (GY0218861B9U) is "Oxygen sensor, mpv, front, lower".

I've looked in all the local auto parts stores for a Chilton's or Hayne's manual for the 2000 MPV and can't find one. In the previous city I lived in, the local library offered access to Mitchell's - not sure if that's common in most places, but I'll have to check. Otherwise, any advice on where to get a decent service manual so I can further investigate the manifold replacement procedure or the throttle plate cleaning?

 

You should definitely be b\able to replace the air bag module by yourself djn. Have never replaced one yet on a 2000 MPV but does not look tobe that difficult. Luck would have it, I just happen to have a 2000 MPV with CAL emissions towed into the shop today with a siezed up water pump and overheating. Took some pics of the underside in relation to the manifold and O2 sensor in question. Also a few of the throttle body and getting into the cleaning process. The air bag module is located just to the right of the accel pedal and will take a look at how easy/hard will be to install yourself. 3 hours is a ridiculous price to charge for a replace. There is an initialization of module to be performed but is super easy. If this company is giving that kind of quality to their work then maybe will be ok to pursue that course of action. Just being a bit wary of the whole safety thing you know.
The warm-up CAT is indeed build right into the manifold. Would not be a bad idea at all to wait on replacing the downstream sensor and seeing if the CEL comes back on. I doubt that it will for the sensor. I think a lot of shops want to replace both just based on the shotgun approach that if you replace everything then you do not have to worry about a comeback. Sensor will be easy to replace later even then. Cannot believe that they are charging an extra hour for the sensor along with the manifold. The sensor is in the crossover pipe that needs to be removed in order to get access to the manifold and would add a whopping 38 seconds of time to replace once that pipe is out of vehicle!! Save it for later if needed and save the extra expense even if doing the job yourself. I can post some diagrams of manifold R and R straight out of the OE shop manual but is not very accurate. Only indicating that the crossmember needs to be removed and the manifold will fall right out but is wrong. The alternator also needs to be removed and moved around a bit in order to get to the front/upper manifold bolt and to wiggle the bugger out of there but if you can find and shop that will do the job for the listed replace time of 2.0 hours then do think that you will regret the money spent for the labor to have someone else do the job for you.
Am a bit confused about the code and part number for rear O2 as well. The GY02 sensor is a downstream O2 sensor but for the left bank of the engine and not the right bank. The right bank is the one closer to the firewall and left bank is on the radiator side or closest to the front of the vehicle. The P0421 is indicating a right bank CAT failure so why are they going with a left bank downstream O2 sensor? The right bank downstream O2 is a GY04 instead. What kind of part number are they giving you for the manifold/converter? Maybe parts dept just got confused but lets make sure everything matches. By the way you can get the OE warm-up CAT/Manifold for about $180 less if you order thru online resource. Nice kind of savings anyway.
I do see some manuals available online at e-bay sometimes but your van will be a tough nut to crack for one. 2000-2001 is really the only acceptable manual as 98 andearlier isway far different and 02 and later is enough different that would be a problem issome areas. Will post you up some pics of the CAT, throttle area in the morning so let me know ASAP if you want some pics of other areas as should be done with water pump replace by noon and van will be gone back home

 

CRAP! I just spent a 1/2 hour typing outa response, then lost it due to "session timeout." Since it's late now, this is going to be much shorter. I found a local shop (Tuffy Auto Service) that will do the manifold repair and allow me to supply the parts, so I ordered everything from www.onlinemazdaparts.com today. I'm holding off on the O2 sensor and will see if the light comes back on after replacing the manifold and clearing the codes. So I don't need pics of the manifold, but thanks.

It would be handy to have pics of the throttle body. I did some reading on www.MPVClub.com and the sticking gas pedal seems to be a common problem, easily solved by cleaning the throttle body (even though the dealers seem to be telling most people that the entire throttle body needs to be replaced).

I thought about the SAS module and decided to just order a new one since I was getting the other parts. From my first look, I think that should be pretty easy to do.

 

Ohhhhhhh, I hate when that happens too djn. [:@][:@][:@]Nothing more irratating then spending all that time typing to have it get lost and never to be found again. Have got into the habit of 'copying' to the clipboard so that I can 'paste' just in case it does that.
Here are some pics of the throttle body. Was replacing a siezed up water pump so took these as I was going back together. Dealer just recommends replace because that is pretty much Mazda's stance on the whole deal. They claim that there is a special coating on the inside of the throttle body that prevents carbon build-up and that cleaning will remove this 'special' coating. Obviously who cares if the coating is washed off as it did not work anyway and that's why it needs to be cleaned!! Have cleaned a bunch and works great. It does come back after 15k miles or so but just reclean. Much cheaper, especially if you are doing the work yourself. Use throttle cleaner as sparingly as possible as much of it will go into the intake manifold. At start up if may crank a long time due to flooding or will run really rough for a short time untill the cleaner is gone. If CEL starts flashing then is just registering the rough running missfire. Removing the negative battery cable for a few minutes will clear the codes and turn the CEL back off.

[IMG]local://upfiles/1377/D4141B7D77EB4293919680940DFED514.jpg[/IMG]
Before cleaning. Silver on the outside and then black line where the throttle plate closes.

[IMG]local://upfiles/1377/F8048F42366D492CB5C82BA9AE5902A2.jpg[/IMG]
After cleaning. See that even the top part of the throttle plate is now clean. Toothbrush and throttle cleaner.

[IMG]local://upfiles/1377/84EAA2A2EE9E48AD89C1E825A17A8E44.jpg[/IMG]
this is how I ususally do the cleaning. Removing the MAF and accordian tube only. Gives just enough room with minimal parts removal and time. Be careful however of damaging the gasket between the MAF and air cleaner housing. It is only a foam rubber type material and easily tears. Tears will let in dirt to the MAF and engine.

[IMG]local://upfiles/1377/900DF7128A8F49E1AC8823480AEDB069.jpg[/IMG]
To get a little more room then take out the accordian tube, MAF, and front air cleaner housing. If van has some miles on it then this is often best way as the accordian tube is very non flexible and you cannot compress enough to remove or damage to the MAF gasket is nearly impossible to avoid.

[IMG]local://upfiles/1377/6CA6C3A482C4452694EDC7B15FD42BD5.jpg[/IMG]
And for maximum room to work then pull the battery out too.

 

Wow, this is excellent! Did your customer get a free cleaning due to my request? Really, I can't believe you went through that trouble of pulling all that junk out of the way for the great pictures - THANKS!!!. If I lived in your town, you would be my mechanic for life.

So is the goal to clean the gunk just off of the plate (i.e. is that what's sticking), or are there other parts deeper in there that need cleaning too? This looks pretty easy either way.

Also, got my manifold today, so should hopefully get that taken care of early next week.

 

Well yes they did get a free cleaning so I could show you what it looked like djn. Thank you very much for the "be my mechanic for life" That means quite a bit and is a great compliment. Thank you.
The primary goal is to clean the throttlebody bore where the throttle plate contacts as that is the binding spot (black line area of the first pic). Cleaning the plate just helps to reduce the amount of build up and also reduces the chance that some of that carbon will not start transfering to the throttle body itself and while you are in there why not clean up the rest. Deeper in the manifold is even more gunk but will not cause the throttle to stick like it is. The EFI cleaning that you brought up before will help to clean some of the gunk out in the manifold but only if is one that is introduced into the intake system before the throttle plate such as a pressurized spray system that is snaked in under that accordian hose. Fuel additive will not do this
Hope the manifold replace goes over good and the rear O2 is not needed.

 

There is no way I would go with ANYTHING other than the factory parts when it comes to airbags and restraints. These devices are way too important to try to skimp on a couple hundred bucks and have the systems fail on you.

 

Well, I can't say that was the most fun thing I did on a Saturday, but it's clean now. I ended up having to pull the whole air filter assembly out because that damn accordian tube would not budge. Just when I thought I had all the tubes and electrical wiresdisconnected, I found another one holding it in place. Now I get to do it all over again... the tube has a rip in it, but I had to put it back together so I could drive it this evening. Not sure if it was already there, or if I did it when I manhandled the thing out. I'll have to get a new part and pull it out again. Do you know if that's going to be a dealer (i.e. onlinemazdaparts.com) part or can I get one of those at Autozone? By the way, the pics were a big help in knowing what to look for. Thanks again.

 

Not a lot of fun djn but do a coupled hundred and will come a lot easier.Glad to hear that you were able to get the throttle cleaned out ok but sorry to hear that tube had a tear in it. Is it the accordian tube or some other as there are a mess of them down there? Those rubber hoses and parts get very brittle and hard to remove if they have some miles on them in that hot under hood environment. I doubt that the accordian hose would be available aftermarket but you never know. Would not hurt to google around a bit and see if anything comes up. Let me know what was torn and will get you an OE part number first thing monday morning when I can use the parts computer.


Heres to no more sticky throttle. [sm=groupwave.gif][sm=groupwave.gif]

 

Yeah, things are always the hardest first time around, then you remember all the things you have to unscrew/unplug when you dive in the next time.... and yes, it was the accordian tube that was torn, on the underside close to the thottle body. I assume that can also let dirt into the engine. I Google'd and checked rockauto.com and couldn't find a part. That would be helpful if you can find it. Otherwise, I can try Jason at onlinemazdaparts (I also need to see if I can replace a rear seat arm rest that the kids destroyed).

OK, now for the really wierd part. During the cleaning of the TB, I had pulled several of the electrical connectors off of the whole air intake assembly, but never pulled the battery cable. When I started the vehicle, the airbag light was no longer flashing (which, as you remember, is what started this whole thread). I made several stops this evening (store, gas, etc) and after about the 3rd time starting the MPV back up, the light came back on. Made one more stop, then started up, and the light is off again. What the heck??? What do you make of that? I don't see how there is any connected from the air intake electrical harnesses to the airbag SAS module... By the way, that's how this whole mess started. The airbag light did this intermittent on/off thing for about a month, then decided to stay on permanently, until today.