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2003 Protégé ES 2L - Won't Start - Not sure where else to look?

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Old 04-17-2016 | 09:24 PM
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Default 2003 Protégé ES 2L - Won't Start - Not sure where else to look?

https://youtu.be/CYt2pAirACg - video of it.

It's a 2L engine with 169,xxx kms, hasn't ran in over a year when it came to me. Plus the Winter it sat before I got back too it.
Here's a list of things I have changed on it so far: PCM, Cam Position Sensor, Crank Position Sensor I believe, coils, wires, spark plugs, main relay, PCV Valve. I recently noticed the alternator seized up (likely from sitting over the Winter) so I swapped it out with a good one. Not sure what else ive changed off the top of my head.

I have turned the #1 piston to TDC and the timing was where it needed to be, timing belt looks pretty fresh, checked the plugs against the block for spark all of them had spark, can hear the fuel pump kicking in, pulled the fuel line at the fuel rail and it was coming through (not sure if the pressure was strong enough - any advice on how to check fuel pressure would be appreciated)

Been using a fresh battery while working on it, no leaks on the car, after the winter I topped off the tank with premium gas to dilute the old gas. I noticed a slight improvement in its effort to start after changing the alternator but not enough.
Video is of how it sounds. Looking for any advice on where to go from here!

At this point I'm wondering - Weak fuel pump? Bad fuel injectors? (How would I check the injectors?)
 
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Old 04-18-2016 | 04:26 AM
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Fuel pressure is tested using a fuel pressure gauge. You need to test both pressure & flow.

Simple injector test is to listen to them with a screw driver and hear them click when the open & close.
 
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Old 04-19-2016 | 12:33 AM
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Watched the video you posted, nice to have something to go on. Cranks a little on the slow side and I'm suspecting that is from sitting. Starter has probably seen better days.

The concern I have is the air intake tube is removed? Do you not have a Mass Air Flow sensor in the air intake tube or air filter box? Without the input from the MAF sensor, It will be hard to start with a good starter.

Why change the PCM? Just curious. Seen very few that have problems. I would throw the original one back in unless you had a specific reason for it's replacement. Not in front of my work computer and can't remember if the PCM is plug and play or if it throws security coding into a tail spin.
 
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Old 04-19-2016 | 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Sparky202
Watched the video you posted, nice to have something to go on. Cranks a little on the slow side and I'm suspecting that is from sitting. Starter has probably seen better days.

The concern I have is the air intake tube is removed? Do you not have a Mass Air Flow sensor in the air intake tube or air filter box? Without the input from the MAF sensor, It will be hard to start with a good starter.

Why change the PCM? Just curious. Seen very few that have problems. I would throw the original one back in unless you had a specific reason for it's replacement. Not in front of my work computer and can't remember if the PCM is plug and play or if it throws security coding into a tail spin.
I do have the air box and yeah the MAF is in the box, it'd all been removed for access. The PCM was essentially a hail Mary, seeing as the car came to me in its current condition and having no history to go on I figured it was worth a shot. Not much effort to change, I am thinking however of changing it back. Suppose at this point it wouldn't hurt to check the starter.
 
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Old 04-19-2016 | 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by grim_reaper
Fuel pressure is tested using a fuel pressure gauge. You need to test both pressure & flow.

Simple injector test is to listen to them with a screw driver and hear them click when the open & close.
My understanding is that it has to be running for that to work? Seems it would be difficult to hear while trying to crank it.
 
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Old 04-19-2016 | 11:01 PM
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In the normal world with a normal car,

Fuel pump will prime up with the ignition on, then once cranking it will run to supply fuel. Testing pressure & flow doesn't need the engine to run, just cranking over.

Same goes for injectors, all cars need fuel to start & run, so under cranking they will be opening & closing to supply fuel.
 
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Old 04-20-2016 | 06:41 PM
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Hook up the dang MAF for crying out loud, it's a important little component. Try a de-flood start. Key off, push throttle to the floor, then try to start her. Might be fouled out with all the slow cranking. Seemed like the motor burped once out the throttle body.
 
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Old 04-20-2016 | 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Sparky202
Hook up the dang MAF for crying out loud, it's a important little component. Try a de-flood start. Key off, push throttle to the floor, then try to start her. Might be fouled out with all the slow cranking. Seemed like the motor burped once out the throttle body.
Even prior to taking the air box off it wasn't much different of a situation. Sounded essentially the same, and yeah I'm not overly sure what that "burping" is. I'm pretty certain it's from the throttle body. But not sure why. I wouldn't figure a sensor like that would be a concern for starting, then again I'm more familiar with carburetor engines where something like that is most never a problem lol. Will see how tomorrow turns out after swapping the PCM and throwing the air box on. Will check the injectors, don't have the gauge to check the fuel pressure so that'll come later.
 
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Old 04-20-2016 | 08:17 PM
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Mass Air Flow sensor does just what it says. Measures the mass of air being sent thru the engine. The PCM then adjusts the fuel injector pulse accordingly. A perfectly running engine will die if the sensor is unplugged. So without that information, the PCM has not a clue of what to do with the injectors.

Try the old PCM and the de-flood start and see where that takes you. Fuel, air, spark. one of the three is acting up and until the MAF is back in the game, you really can't go anywhere else
 
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Old 05-04-2016 | 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Sparky202
Try the old PCM and the de-flood start and see where that takes you. Fuel, air, spark. one of the three is acting up and until the MAF is back in the game, you really can't go anywhere else
The old PCM went back in, hooked up the air box and MAF sensor, threw the booster on the battery but no luck. So the search continues...
 


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