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FIXED - On cold engine start: rough idle, stalling at stop, low RPMs, high STFT

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Old 06-05-2023, 06:30 PM
watchDominionDotOrg's Avatar
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Default FIXED - On cold engine start: rough idle, stalling at stop, low RPMs, high STFT

Posting this in case someone comes across it on google, will try to include lots of keywords.

Spent the better part of a day working on it, finally fixed it. 2003 Mazda Tribute LX V6 3.0L FWD
The goal was the replace the lower intake gaskets with part # MS96124. Part includes upper and lower intake gaskets, Idle Air Control valve gasket, and throttle body gasket; I replaced those too because why not.

Symptoms:
  • Upon starting, car would idle roughly. RPMs would dip into the 500 range and cause noticeable shaking.
  • Shifting into Drive, the car would shake even more and sometimes stall.
  • Only occurs from a cold start (example: car has been off overnight).
  • Symptoms disappears once warmed up to operating temperature; usually after ~5-10 minutes.

Diagnosis:
  • OBD reader initially threw codes P2195 P2197, but failed to re-appear several days after clearing.
    • Codes suggested faulty O2 sensors, but the live data confirmed their voltages were fluctuating properly between 0.1v-0.9v.
  • No OBD codes thrown afterwards.
  • Short term fuel trim was high, fluctuating in the 20-30% ranges.
    • Upon increasing the RPM, the STFT % would drop; apparently this indicates a vacuum leak.
  • Spraying carburetor cleaner around the engine bay while idling did not change the RPMs.
    • The leak was either not close to the surface or not part of the intake.
  • After scouring the net for useful information with symptoms similar to this, I found a post by someone who had a similar symptom and changed a whack ton of stuff. His last post was him planning to change the lower intake gaskets at a mechanic, and then never posted again. My guess is that fixed it.
  • Upon inspection, the lower intake manifold gaskets were completely flattened and squished; looked like web coming out the sides. Mating surface was also very dirty.

Plan / course of action
  1. Use Youtube video guide in resources section.
  2. Replace lower intake gaskets.
  3. Perform other preventative maintenance while everything is apart.
    • Clean / replace PCV valve
    • Clean areas and components along the way
    • Replace upper intake gaskets
    • Replace IAC valve gasket
    • Replace throttle bottle gasket
    • Insulate fuel injector power cables with more electrical tape; some were frayed
    • Clean fuel injector power connector sockets with compressed air
    • Inspect hoses and replace or seal them. In my case, the right-angle crankcase ventilation hose that connects to the front was ruined. Replaced temporarily with clear PCV tubing until I can get high temperature rubber hose. The right angle rubber tube / hose is 5/8" on 1 end and 3/8" on the other; inside diameter.
    • Inspect and clean the ends of the fuel injectors.
    • The back 3 spark plugs and coils wouldn't be a bad idea either if you haven't changed those in a long time; those are a pain to get to.

Tools and supplies used / needed
  • Blue Driver ODB scan tool; I used this to get codes and check live data. Has served me well over the years. A bit pricey, but it's paid itself off over the years. Wish I had gotten one sooner before I went shopping for used cars.
  • Cleaners: electronics, carburetor, brake. Compressed air.
    • Electronics for cleaning plastic parts and any sensitive things like fuel injectors.
    • Brake cleaner for cleaning the metal mating surface for the lower intake manifold; spray on rag / towel and wipe, do not spray directly on the surface.
    • Carburetor for cleaning throttle body.
  • Small pliers and plastic spudger / pry tool to remove gaskets without damaging the manifold.
  • EGR valve gasket; apparently these shouldn't be reused.
  • Socket set; 8mm and 10mm deep sockets for most bolts.
  • AC / Fuel line disconnect tool and penetrating oil.
    • I struggled a bit disconnecting the fuel line. Decent amount of residual fuel still in the line, even after de-pressurizing, so be careful.

Resources
  • Youtube video series (4 parts) on changing the upper and lower intake gaskets.
    • Note, the part where he removes the back 3 spark plug coil wires has an extra cable that also needs to be disconnected.
    • Note, the bolts holding down the wiring harness where he gets a jack to support the oil pan is optional; at least for me. I was able to remove and install the lower intake manifold without having to move that wiring harness completely out of the way.
  • Chilton service manual for informative pictures and torque specifications.
    • Intake manifolds were all 89in/lbs (inch, not ft), just need to be careful with the order in which you install / remove the bolts.
    • The 2 bolts on the EGR valve (one with the gasket) are 18ft/lbs.
    • Throttle body and IAC valve are both 89in/lbs.
Results
  • Short term fuel trim during idle has dropped to the single digit %, sometimes low teens, which is the normal and idle range and considering the age of the car.
  • So far so good; no more symptoms.
  • Added some Gumout REGANE (the one with PEA / polyetheramine) high mileage fuel additive to help clean the fuel injectors.

References:
Mine was a lot dirtier than this. The red circle is the PCV valve and tubing / hose; good to inspect that. The PCV valve can be broken loose with a 15/16 socket, be careful though, it's plastic. I didn't have a 15/16, so I used a 7/8 spark plug socket, or something that looks like it; had a lot more ridges.
I used electronics cleaner to clean the PCV valve.
FIXED - On cold engine start: rough idle, stalling at stop, low RPMs, high STFT-esgfvof.png

The red circled right-angled tube / hose is where it had a hole. 5/8 into the engine; 3/8 into the black tube (inside diameter).
FIXED - On cold engine start: rough idle, stalling at stop, low RPMs, high STFT-lyrsfgo.png

These fuel injector power cables were frayed on mine, some even had exposed copper wire. Re-insulated with electrical tape.
FIXED - On cold engine start: rough idle, stalling at stop, low RPMs, high STFT-qkoxtvs.png
 

Last edited by watchDominionDotOrg; 06-18-2023 at 01:44 AM.
  #2  
Old 06-06-2023, 03:21 AM
grim_reaper's Avatar
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Well done.
 
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