i think we scared off another one lol

 

the guy was a tool in the first place. hes gone for sure because he struck a nerve with pretty well the main people on this forum. i understand about poking buth e took it too far with bull**** information that made no sense. i mean what kind of person would say that paddleshifting is gonna be the way of the future and that shifting is basically overrated and that a mazda3 S touring is automatic only. wtf.

 

I think this one was worth scaring off, Tracker.
And I believe he"s right about paddle shifting. They are manual transmissions too, just controlled differently. They are taking over and I believe will continue to.

 

true. but need i not remind you paddleshifting isnt considered standard. where is the clutch. its basically just like changing the radio with the steering wheel mounted controls. sure its the way. but i will be sad when and if standard would ever leave. ahhh life is good. lets all go back to our little world that has been rattled huge. what say you guys?

 

Transmission definitions:

Automatic: Any transmission that can be put in a certain forward gear and then deal with all gear changes "automatically". This transmission type includes fluid drive/torque converter equipped units, CVTs, SMGs, DSGs and all other transmissions of their ilk.

Semi-automatic: Any transmission where its most "automatic" mode requires driver intervention for each and every gear change. This transmission type includes full-race sequential gear boxes, and a few high end units from the likes of Ferrari and other supercar manufacturers.

Manual: Any transmission that requires manual intervention by the driver to disengage the drive coupling, physically push/pull the gear sets around to effect a gear change, and then to reengage the drive coupling. Last time I checked, this type of transmission is identifiable in cars if (and only if) there are three pedals under the dash.

Given the technical nature of the English language, it has some fairly rigid rules on how technical things are described, and it is linguistically incorrect to refer to a DSG style transmission as anything other than an automatic unless you qualify that statement by saying that it is an automatic transmission with a semi-automatic mode. The mechanical nature of the drive coupling and gear box in no way makes this type of a transmission a manual.

 

I understand that line of thinking, but prefer to help distinguish them by referring to the internals of the trans. After all, most technically minded people think of an automatic has having a torque converter, bands, planetary gears operated by wet clutches and hydraulic fluid under pressure.
The loss of a torque converter, addition of meshing gears, and the ability to shift the transmission at will (within it"s software limits) to my mind makes it more akin to a standard, manual transmission.
After all, a SMG, DSG, Tiptronic could also be defined as a semi-automatic, but that does not do it justice either given the history of transmissions specifically designed for drag racing.

 

Hmmm, interesting, I am an engineer, and to me, ANYTHING that has an automatic mode is an automatic device, regardless of its mechanical properties. Go figure.

Quote:

ORIGINAL: virgin1

"(within software limits)" And therein is one of the keys to automation. If for instance you trigger a downshift event on a DSG style transmission, THE COMPUTER decides whether or not to grant said request, and then does all of the actual work for the driver. Semi-automatic by definition. In the case where the driver triggers a downshift event that would over-rev the engine, thecomputer decides that the requested shift is outside the bounds of what the software states, andit WILLNOT grant the shift. Sounds like an automatic device operating insemi-automatic mode if you ask me.

Quote:

ORIGINAL: virgin1

Absolutely true, a Tiptronic slushbox has a semi-automatic mode just as does a DSG, and in that sense, they are both automatic transmissions with semi-automatic modes. The difference is that one has a rigid mechanical coupling between the engine and a conventional gearbox, and the other has a fluid coupling (that can optionally be locked) between the engine and what is typicaly a planetary gear arrangement. That in no way makes the DSG any more "manual" than the Tiptronic.

The problem is that the term "manual" has been used so often vis-Ã*-vis DSG style transmissions, that in spite of how lingusitically incorrect it is, folks have latched on to it. It is kind of like an urban legend; if it isrepeated often enough, it becomes true in the minds of those using the term.

 

Paddleshift is indeed the wave of the future...and since we can't do much about it, I say we enjoy our clutches as long as we can.

 

*covers ears* LALALALALALALALALALALALALALA NO PADDLESHIFTIN IS NOT THE WAVE OF THE FURTURE LALALALALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU LALALALALALALA

 

More toin response to you Dale later, when I have more time.

What are you others afraid of? A "DSG" shifts faster (both up and down,) better, is smoother on the passengers and the driveline and has all the directness of today"s manuals.
The only thing I"m really afraid of is the additional technology (re:trouble) that may come with it down the road... so to speak.