I see your logic.

It would be accurate if the stock tune on a vehicle eked out every bit of power potential in an engine. Today's stock tunes are in place to gain mpg and longevity. Tuners and chips retune to bring out what is already there in the engine (just not realized). Manufacturers retune just about each year and bump power ratings up in small increments. They don't redesign new engines each year. Also, there are tons of tuners and chips out there for all kinds of vehicles.

Then there's tuning for non naturally aspirated engines.

 

Well, not exactly. Given the computer controls on cars these days, the "stock" tune is more than capable of wringing every last HP or MPG (depending on whether the pedal is to the floor or whether the car is just tooling down the freeway at some steady speed) out of the engine. Typically the only things new programming is capable of doing these days is to A) increase the rev limiter a few hundred RPMs, and B) raise or eliminate the top speed governor. The research I've done on the Hypertech program indicates that most if not all the gains from their tune is from an increase in the rev limit and nothing else.

Now there's where a different "tune" can make a dramatic change. Blown engines are so much more tunable due to the fact that the chip can alter how much boost the engine will get at any given point. Of course the down side is that the more time the engine spends in the realm of said extra boost, the quicker the engine will wear out.

 

You're saying that all of the chips and tuners out there are a bunch of lies and the dyno sheets to prove said gains are all lies?

 

All of the chips? How many do you think there are out there?

The following comments are within the context of a "tune" only and do not apply to a car with an engine that has a revamped intake, cam, and exhaust system:

Most reputable tuners come clean right up front and say that OBD-II cars are pretty much "untuneable". Why? OBD-II systems "learn and adapt", and as such, any tuning is typically rendered moot after a short period of time. Said another way, you can do a dyno pull, tweak the programming and run another dyno pull and the numbers will often show an improvement. However, if you do another dyno pull a few thousand miles after the "tune" there is a 99% chance the engine will show virtually the same numbers as prior to the "tune", that is with the exception of higher RPM operations.

So, are the makers of the few chips out there lying? Yes and no.

 

your confusing plug and play with chips. A chip is what is soldered into the ecu and pretty much the cheap and mostly ineffective way to increase performance and yes typically what they do is remove speed limiter and raise rpms, sometimes pushing the afr mix to rich for more top end power. SOME chips are tuneable (reburns)

OBD-II vehicles are not untunable given they are harder to tune, take for example any civic, tons of plug and play units and tuners available not even a month after the has been released. What makes it harder is the way a car manufacturer designs the ecu to gain access to changeable parameters for aftermarket units. Plug and plays do not turn off adaptive strategies which is required in order to implement changes programmed into it, that said it will only do so much, the adaptive strategy will only pull back hp/tq so much before it gives up. A realistic example is a tuner is advertised to give additional 10hp/15tq, by the time the adaptive strategy is done messing things up you may get half that, another thing that has to considered is if there is an aftermarket intake and exhaust added, a ecu thats tuned with an aftermarket intake and exhaust will give more power.

Engines today are limited by three things, intake, exhaust, and tune. whats amazing is that they design the intake system to pretty much suffocate the engine and the injectors are made as small as possible. It sounds backwards but its the cheapest way, the reason why is because the engines are able to intake a massive amounts of air but its needs a good amount of fuel behind it, so what they do is make a quiet, bendy, poor flow intake system so the injectors are made smaller and use less fuel. Less air, less fuel. Dont believe me? pop open the intake box on a v6 mazda 6 and tell me that that is enough air to properly allow the engine to breath. Then there is the exhaust, in mazdas case its not so much the amount of bends its the small size, not a bad design (until you decide to change it). The rest of the anger a frustration lies within the tune, aside from the most awful invention (electronic throttle body), adaptive strategy really helps take the fun out of things as far as when to activate vvt, afr mixes depending on how the car is driven and at what rpms the gears are often changed at.

 

Some clarification...

"First, let me briefly explain the different modes of the ECU, and how the tuning differs for each mode. Current computer controlled cars are essentially locked in to running stoichiometric air-fuel ratio during most conditions aside from wide open throttle. The factory oxygen sensors are used as feedback to the ECU to ensure this is the case. This is called “closed loop” mode. At wide open throttle, the oxygen sensors are disregarded and this is referred to as “open loop” mode.

Closed loop tuning
Fueling changes that are made at part throttle will essentially be “undone” by the oxygen sensors, which are attempting to maintain a stoichiometric air-fuel ratio. That is what most people are experiencing with other “tunes” that attempt this method. What we CAN do is adjust spark timing, cam timing, throttle response, etc. to maximize the amount of power that the engine makes while driving in “closed loop” mode. This takes a lot of time to perfect when tuning, but it absolutely improves how the car feels when driving under normal circumstances. Because the engine is more efficient with our tuning, the engine feels much more responsive.

Open loop tuning
In open loop mode, the engine is running directly off of the fueling maps in the ECU. The tuning changes that are made to these maps by Hypertech won’t change or adapt, like they do in closed loop mode. Additionally, we adjust spark, cam timing, and more to maximize the power while keeping the engine in its proper efficiency range. During our testing we will push past the efficiency limits by putting in too much spark advance, and leaning it out too far, so that we can find the limits. From there we can determine where the engine needs to run. It’s all a matter of collecting the data and determining the optimal settings for the best, efficient power.

Once we’ve completed the dyno tuning at wide open throttle we balance the changes made when the foot’s on the floor with those changes that help the efficiency of the engine while in closed loop mode. This combination of tuning changes is tested on the dyno, and then refined on the street. The dynos are useful tools, but we don’t see cars driving on dynos much, so it’s a necessary part of the job to assess and refine the tuning under normal driving conditions.

There’s nothing better than trying it out yourself! Our tuners do come with a 30 day money back guarantee, if not satisfied program the vehicle back to stock and return for a refund. Thanks, Hypertech Support"

 

I've read a number of dyno sheets from Hypertech tuned normally aspirated 2.3 liter Mazda engines, and with the singular exception of the Hypertech chart, none of them show no more than a 2.5 HP increase (most are less).

Long story short, there is no way even the 7 hp claim from Hypertech is going to make a noticable difference in how the vehicle drives or its acceleration times, much less the "real-world" 2.5 hp (or less) gain.

 

And some more info about 'adaptive' computers 'de-tuning'...
'Our updates changes the calibrations in the computer just like GM would do if they downloaded a new update from Detroit. The adaptive strategy is not going to have any affect on our tuning changes. Thanks'

 

The thing is, Mazda has programmed the computer on our cars for optimum performance, minimal emissions, high fuel economy and engine longevity. I seriously doubt even the folks at hypertech will be able to improve upon what came from the factory.

 

WOW: The tech talk is powerful, and interesting. I don't much about making any of the ECU tweaks proposed here......

I did know someone at my place of business who would purchase ECU software and certain "chips" as it was described to me, for his Porches. He claimed to have raced them somewhere in NJ on weekends and such. I did see some photos of him behind the wheel. So it apparently wasn't just BS... He claimed to have tweaked one Porche that his son would drive by Installing a Governor into the ECU - thereby limiting the top speeds for his son's protection!!

I don't think I would fool around with the current ECU settingd for ear that I will screw it up and don't really have the knowledge to recover to factory settings. Thanks guys for the advise. For now, I'll continue to look into the K & N Air intakes - similar to the Turbo version on the Mazda speed Mazda 3s....Although I need to know more about Frying the Tranny as someone indicated earlier on the Thread.