SSTLAURE is right. About a lot! I've heard recently that Japanese car manufacturers have a real labor cost around $27/hour. Because oflegacy Union pension deals, GM & Ford's real labor cost is now over $70/hour.It's tough to compete with that big turd on your back.

For 10 years or so, I've heard in the media that American cars are the least expensive to operate overall. They do break a little more often than theJapanese cars, but they cost less to fix. My 98 Contour SVT might have cost me as much as $2500, maybe less(excluding tires & oil changes), over its 274,000 mile service life. I absolutely would have bought another Ford or GM if they made a compact 4door with 6 speed stick and 250HP.
Fusion and 500 are excellentvehicles that are dressed up and sold under different nameslike Volvo and Mazda. Lots of people who don't know any better wont buy them because they have "Ford" on the label. That really sucks!

 

I drove the Ford Focus, which is built on the same frame as the Mazda 3, and has the same engine.Despite the "major guts" being the same, the Focus doesn't hold a candle to the Mazda 3. The handling of the M3 is vastly superior, with the same engine somehow the M3 has much better punch, and the interior and style of the M3 is 10 years ahead of the Focus. I'm all about saving $, I could have acquired a Focus for several $K less than the M3, but I didn't want to accept a lesser vehicle.

I also drove the Fusion, it may be doing well reliability-wise, but I didn't care for it. It handled like a typical stodgy US name plate sedan.

I guess what I'm saying is reliability is part of it, but the Asiannameplates are building cars that are not just morereliable on average, but also better in performance. A friend has a Hyundai Sonata, ithandles great, smooth like silk on the highway, nice interior, and zero problems in over 1 year of ownership.

GM and Ford may have the high labor costs, but also, outside of full size pickups and SUVs,what they are offeringjustisn't near what the Asian nameplates are doing. They were too fat and happy in the late 90s, when every soccer mom wanted an Explorer, and every redneck wanted an F150 or a Silverado. They invested nothing in the other areas of their product line, and are paying the price now.

 

I only have one problme with your #1.ss. If we decided to take a look at the european market they are still able to price cars realtively around the same as asian or american vehicles and the Euro actually has a higher monetary value than the american dollar (not by much) and even so they are still putting better technology and building techniques in thoes cars for the same price. So if thats the case, going to your example to the Yen and being able to put more in thier cars because in turn cost them less and conversion jacks way up in the US (for obvious reasons) they are making money. Yet to the Euro (which its value is more than the american dollar) they are still putting more into their cars sending them to the US where in turn is actually cheaper than and selling them for a loss? Doesn't make sense.

 

As I stated, the currency conversion is only part of it. If all of thecomponents for the European brands came from Europe & assembly done in Europe, then exported to the US, then you would be correct, however the European brands also have low cost countries that they can go to for labor etc. (Eastern European nations are to Germany what Mexico is to the US, and they also procure parts from Asia.) But as they are already considered an import, there isn't any restriction placed on domestic US content (because there is none), whereas we maintain a minimum domestic content per import/export rules. (Notice also that the European brands aren't doing all that well financially recently when contrasted with the $12Billion profit of Toyota, but not nearly the losses that the US has seen.)

People like to complain that jobs are going to Mexico and to China, and they are right. But for us to be competitive with the competition cost-wise (which extensively use SE Asia markets for labor/materials) we have no choice. The desire is obviously to have Americans employed making American cars, buying American cars. If the jobs making the parts (however cheap you can get them) place the jobs overseas, then we lose as a country, not just as an industry. The choice is in our hands to buy American. The products today are the best they've ever been (And don't tell me the Camry or Accord are "exciting to drive", they couldn't be more boring...) You're going to see more excitement out of Ford, more power, AWD drivetrains. The Fusion/Milan/MKZ and the Edge/MKX are just the start. I purchase my companies products. Period.

One of the main reasons this country is so strong today is because we have an extensive middle class in this country with large buying power. A large portion (roughly 20% when you go through the entire supply chain) is attributed to American automotive manufacturing jobs. Loss of these jobs has a direct impact on our economy. Unfortunately, Americans want everything cheap....Walmart is the poster-child for China, there are literally millions of people employed in China to make the things sold at Walmart. Those things could be produced here in America, but as we don't have a Communist controlled economy, the labor rate for the manufacture of those goods would be higher here (I don't think anyone would get by on the ~$1/day they make in China, which in a controlled non-free market economy will provide a living......A joke by our standards...) The goods would then cost more.

Would you pay more for something (providing all other things were equal) if it were made in America?

I would.

 

Give this article a read.....

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto...92.A11981.html

 

Toyota recalls:
2007 (in 2 months) - 533,417
2006 - 1,760,000
2005 - 2,200,000

www.AutoRecalls.us (http://www.autorecalls.us/aut-11/recalls/2007/toyota/index.html

 

Well than you can thank Mr. Bush for doing a half assed job in iraq and shipping jobs overseas

And I don't shop at wal mart. I don't feed the machine. My friend has the picture of the wall mart smile thats giving an evil smile with the communist sythe and hammer in the background and the red sun. Underneath it says Wal-Marx

I'm sorry friend as much as i dont find the camry or accord fun to drive neither do the find the 500 or fusion fun to dirve either. Handling is horrable and the AWD is kinda pointless in thoes kind of cars because they aren't ment to go off roading or handle tight corners or going rallying and especially not ment for speed theres no point in having 250+ Hp and only go 105MPH its a waste of engenering techniques. Cars that should have the AWD is the focus because it is a rally car. like 3000gt's or eclipses or Evo's. Mitusbishi is the king of AWD and the handling is amazing along with their power. Sports cars need AWD or RWD...these new fords are feakin family sedans. Im sorry I dont picture a family mad driving a fusion E- braking it around a tight corner doing 40-45MPH with his wife and two toddlers straped in car seats in the back.

 

The European sales are slipping because as of late, because lots of European cars are garbage. Mercedes reliability doesn't stack up anymore. VW has put out some bad engines of late - beatles that burn oil from day one, sludge problems with certain engines.

If American cars were equal, yes I would own one. But which American nameplate has a car close to a Mazda 3, or a Civic, or a Corolla? The answer is none of them. Believe me, I looked. Test drovethe Focus, the Cobalt, the Caliber - they aren't close at all. At least in the compact market, they don't compete.

 

I'd be willing to lay good money that a ton of the things you purchase on a daily basis are from China. Walmart is a convenient example, most stores across America sell goods from China. Those things come from China because it is cheaper to produce goods there, the other stores now sell goods made in China, because they need to be able to compete with Walmart to survive, and the cycle continues. Bush isn't shipping jobs overseas, the American consumer is....by always wanting the cheapest, not necessarily the best product they can buy.

Do you really want to get into a conversation with me about UN inspections, Intelligence information, the 911 commissionand military tactics? I really don't think you do.

I'd be willing to bet you've never driven a Fusion with AWD & 250+hpand have no idea how it handles. You are right, the 500 isn't a performance car, never said it was, we don't just target the youth market with our cars. Ford has a great performance car, it's called the Mustang, over 20 years straight as the sales leader in it's segment, in fact, we outsell out competitors 10:1 in that segment. Apparently we're doing something right there. You do realize that the Fusion rides on basically the same world-class chassis that is under the Mazda6, right? That the handling dynamics are almost identical.

Any Mazda6 owners on here unhappy with the handling of their cars? Any Mazdaspeed6 people unhappy with the performance/handling of their cars.....I don't think there will be many complaints.

If Mitsubishi is the king of AWD and it's soooo great....why did they abandon AWD with the latest Eclipse? In fact, the last couple of Eclipse platforms have been front wheel drive only. Hardly a design worthy of such a performance car. Stock the power of the Eclipse is a joke, and the Mazda3 pulls more g's. Any car can be made fast with aftermarket parts, regardless of brand. I've got a buddy with 1100hp in a 4wd 1968 Bronco....you wanna race? Hop in a bone stock Shelby GT500, mash the pedal and tell me that isn't a world-class performance car...you'd be lying.

Your arguements are circular and aren't backed up by any facts. You're biased...I'm done.

 

I did not drive Focus -- it's just too small. I did drive Fusion and the regular 3. Not intersting enough to make me want a new one. I would not buy either of them new -- ever. It's too easy to savea lot of money on thatsort ofcar used. I did by the Speed3 new, the only way it vcould be had, because It was exactly what I wanted, so I coughed up the money for it.

If Ford setup a version of the Fusion like the MS3, price and all, I'm pretty sure I would have fallen for it. I would buy a Caddy CTS-V in a skinny minute if I could justify $50K for a car that I'l have worn slam out 6 years from now. I have 3 kids to finish educating before that will happen.