Biden has already made statements that hint at $150k being the target for the first tax proposal. since they are already going down that much, i am guessing that we could cut that in half again to get a better idea of where it will finally land when all of the **** stops flying.

the current proposed tax plan says that i would save about $800 a year, but i think that i could cut that in half and it would still be about $800 too high of an estimate.

 

I also don't agree with a lot of what he is proposing to do. I am not in the bracket that he wants to tax, but I do not feel that it is right to tax those people more to give to the lesser. I also do not like that he wants to change the law where I cannot carry a weapon to protect myself & my family. Free healthcare??? I hope America is really ready for his kind of Socialist change.

 

Hey sstlaure - - - I agree with you right down the line - - - even to your mention of the tax on purchases - - - are you aware that there is already a proposal (buried in a committee someplace I'm sure) in the form of an initiative before congress? - - - It's called the Fair Tax Bill and would do just as you suggest - - - tax consumption rather than income - - - everybody would pay the same rate on their purchases no matter if they are an illegal alien or a citizen or a welfare recipient or an employed worker or a millionaire or a wage earner. There are a couple of good books out on the subject - - - I think the first one is called "The Fair Tax" and the second one is a rebuttal to criticisms of the idea - - - can't remember the name of it but well worth reading. And as for Obama's challenge - - - first, EVERY political candidate spouts that he is for change. Have you ever heard one say that everything is fine and he'll just keep the status quo? and second, bringing about the proposed change with the campaign promises - - - they are just that; "campaign promises". Politicians are notorious for not keeping (or being able to keep) their campaign promises. He leans way to left for me and I didn't vote for him but now I'll put my hope in him that he can be an instrument for straightening out some of our messes - - - we'll see.

rolomac

 

BO has not said one word about implementing Canadian/European style health care, I would not want that, very few I know want that, the income taxes it would take to pay for that would not fly in the USA. Plus I know people who live in Canada and in Europe - their systems are certainlyfar fromflawless.

This nonsense about how all Dems are borderline communists is so ridiculous as to be almost funny. Remember 8 years of Clinton? We certainly didn't end up being the next Sweden.

 

Obama (and the Clintons) have long been for "Health care for those that can't afford it provided by the Government." That is socialized health care that would be funded by you and me....the taxpayer.

Obama Plans to Cover the Uninsured. Obama proposes to make a public health plan available nationwide for the uninsured, self-employed and small businesses, giving them access to benefits similar to those available to members of Congress. Key features would be guaranteed eligibility; affordable premiums, co-pays and deductibles; and quality care standards. (Obama for America)

Obama Expanded Health Care Coverage for Low-Income Families. When he was a state senator in Illinois, Obama’s bill expanded income eligibility for KidCare and FamilyCare, the state health insurance programs for low-income families. (Public Act 93-0063, 6/30/03)

They weren't successful before because you always had either party in control of either the Executive or Legislative branches. (Not in charge of both.) With the Supermajority just won in this election, expect the Democrats to run the floor with their ideals....One of which is socialized health care, another is the elimination of guns in the hands of the people.

Obama's voting record and past history put him as one of the farthest left candidates to ever be elected into office.

As for the income taxes "not flying"....the people that will institute those taxes have just been elected. We can't kick them out until the ends of their terms. We'll see if they need the boot at the next election.

The people that put Obama into office wanted change....they're going to get it right along with you and me. It's going to be an interesting 4 years.

I haven't seen any comments in this thread that the Democrats are borderline communists. It is however a fact that the Democratic party historically has stood for the governement stepping into peoples lives to "take care" of things those people supposedly can't take care of themselves. They have long been supportive of Welfare and socialized programs that help the poor and these programs use more and more tax dollars every year. It's redistribution of wealth....if you work hard and make lots of money, you pay lots of taxes to fund programs for those that don't pay taxes (or pay a fraction of what you do.)

 

Yep, sst,its a left wing conspiracy.Under Obama, thegovernment will change, it willreallystart sticking its fingersinto people's lives, andthe government will also interferein the economy big time unlike under the free enterpriseRepublicans... wait a minute ... under Bush, how many hundreds of billions of taxpayer moneyare beingspent bailing out banks and financial institutions? Where does that money come from, sst? And the Patriot Act (interesting name - kudos to the committee that came up with that one) allows the Feds unprecedented power to dig into everyone's private lives and regulate our financial transactions.Your right, though, we need to worry aboutObama, what a weirdo, he thinks we should spend a bit ofpublic moneyon health care for the very poor.And maybe get out of Iraq. What aleft wing nut jobthe guy is.His ideas aregonnaruin the country.

 

Obama Voted yes on the Patriot act BTW, 1 of the few times he didn't vote Present.
Watch the Market Drop some more, especially (according to a friend that does investments) just before the end of the year, with him wanting to double Capitol Gains Taxes people are figuring where to put their money where it wont see the higher taxes and they are getting it out before 2009 just in case Obama pulls a Clinton and makes the Taxes Retro to 1/1/09.

 

I never said anything about a Left Wing Conspiracy Urbanman. I don't believe a damn thing either candidate says during an election. I look at their voting record on the issues that matter to me. His voting record (when present) skews to the left. He voted with the Democratic party 95% of the time (McCain was 90% Republican). Politically speaking the Dems represent the Left, the Republicans on the Right. Basic political theory.

I love how anyone that disagrees on politics has to take things to the extreme. I've saidOB gets my support as the elected President. I haven't cried mis-count, I haven't cried dis-enfranchisement or any other thing. Obama got more votes in this election, so now it's put up or shut-up. We'll see how he does for the next 4 years and go from there.

Bush inherited an economy in decline, 9/11 happened and changed many things in this country, etc, etc....These are trying times for this country. I don'tcare who was in office from 2000-2008, we'd be in the same mess we are in today.

Anyone saying either party is 100% to blame for the economic mess is full of crap. They both have culpability into it as do the American people. The Democrats on the side of giving people the dream of owning a home (even if they couldn't afford it)....the Republicans for being the greedy corporations that reap the profits......the American people for having record amounts of Credit Card debt and mortgages they couldn't afford in the first place.

Does that make you feel better Urbanman?

My wife's extended family are the "We're Democrat therefore we're more intelligent than you" crowd. Not all Democrats are like this, but you know the type I speak of. As if anything other than their way of thinking is purely idiotic. I hate the staunch Democrat rhetoric (just as much as I hate the far Right) I prefer to talk about the actual facts surrounding an issue and understand that as Americans we're allowed to disagree, but we shouldn't get disagreeable about it.

I'm sick of the blame game, I'm sick of a 2 year f-ing election cycle. It's asinine. Obama (and McCain) were elected to their terms of office as Senators, yet both have spent the last 2 years trying to get their next job rather than focusing on the jobs they were elected to in the first place. There should be 3 - 1 month periods leading to an election, all election activities would need to be held during these 1 month periods.

Jan - 1 month - Primaries/Nomination - Debate #1
June -1 month - Debates 2/3
October - 1month - Debate 4
November - 1 day - Election

Imagine the BILLIONS of dollars that could then go to charitable organizations instead of pumping it into a broken political machine that just flings crap at the nearest other monkey. Ooo Ooo Ahh Ahh

Let the guy get into office, let's see his 100 day plan. I want to understand the actions and policies that an Obama administration is actually going to go and support. Not election promises - actual results.

 

My preceding post was not extreme, it was sarcastic.

Speaking of extreme,you don't think itsextreme toinfer that since Obama as a junior senator voted for the Patriot Act,thathe is just as responsible for it as the bill's sponsors, authorsand the President under which the legislation took effect? Thesenior leaders and President have to bear the lion's share of the responsibility.

Re: your statement above (bolded) -no one could have done anything in 8 years? Why have a government if that is true? President GWB and his cabinetsaw plenty of data regarding what was going on in the mortgage market ... the out of control subprime lending andsecuritizing and trading of the debt... and nothing was done. Sure, the lax lending might have started under Clinton, but it bloomed under Bush, histeamGWBshould have reigned it in. I think itsvery fair to apportion 2/3 of the blame to team GWB. Greenspan, too,can share in the blame - give him and the other pinheads at the Fedthe other 1/3.

I don't blame GWB for 9/11, he inherited that one, he was Prez for only nine months at that point, my minority view is that it was mostly Clinton's fault, same logic as above,Clinton's cabinet saw all the intelligence data for years indicating the threats, and yet our airport security was a joke. Under Clinton, more money was spent going after Microsoft (for supposed anti competitive, monopolybehavior) than going after these real threats to the nation. I personally remember in the late 90s taking a motorcycle battery (full of sulphuric acid) onto a plane in a carry on bag,no problem - how ridiculous is that?

I am an equal opportunitycritic. I expect our leaders to be take responsibility.

 

Obama will make new History of US